PRT095 – Before You Entered the Picture

How do you scrapbook estranged family members, step-children, after divorce, and other sensitive situations?

That’s what we’re talking about this week!

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  • jmspegel

    I sometimes get so frustrated with topics like the future of scrapbooking.  I understand your panelist are more of the artist type and lack formal education in business but, the industry is not doing anything new to business.  In fact, it is a complete perfect business example of how industries change and adapt as they mature and progress, we are entering 20 years of an industry now.
    Though I feel that Nancy receives her information through running her website, I feel that she is and has been out of touch with true scrapbookers for a very long time.
    Ana herself is too deep in the industry to know as well, didn’t she tell us what Making Memories on their Bravisomo line of award ribbons was going to be a HUGE trend setter.  That move just allows MM to be sold and miss summer CHA.
    I really wish you would pull real non industry influenced scrapbookers on your show more often, it would really provide better content.
    With the internet allowing others to share their stories and gain ideas, there is also a HUGE set of everyday scrappers that don’t make any money for scrapbooking that share and answer real scrapbooking trends.

  • Jana _NJ

    I think I can say that I’m a real example of people not separating their issues with the memory keeping part specially for the children. I was glad that Tami saved her album for her daughter to be able to see.  My mom when she decided to leave my father without us knowing destroyed many pictures that have him included. My sister found the wedding album all torn and could savage a couple of pictures. My mother had a a beautiful 8×10 black and white album with gorgeous pictures, most of it destroyed now. When my sister discovered that  she  went for a secret mission in the house trying to ( without my mom knowing of course )salvage something else. She was able to find a album of pictures that my dad had when he traveled while in service in Europe. (My dad was from the Navy) but she did not find all postcards he wrote to us in every single stop he made. My sister got 2 wedding pictures some couple of random pictures of him, and this trip, she had the pictures hidden in a friend’s house with fear that my mother would see and destroy the only pics left I sent her money to send all of them back to me in express mail. Praying they would arrive safely (coming from Brazil) and they did !I’m now scanning them. What my mother didn’t realize she didn’;t destroy a past that she was angry about, she was selfish and destroyed  the memories of my father that died 2 years after she left him. She kept from me all the things that would give me comfort like the postcards I remember and I wish I could see his handwriting again.
    So I think no matter what happens with any family member we should think who will also impact if we destroy or if we don’t talk about that member.

  • This was a thought-provoking episode for me. There is a person who is estranged from me to whom I used to be very, very close. I looked up to her and made scrapbook pages about how much I admired many different things about her and the traits I hoped someday to have. 

    When I see these pages now, I feel that same mix of emotions Noell mentioned: excitement (“I loved her!” or “that was a great day!”) and sadness (missing the person I knew and mourning her loss). 

    On several occasions I have considered removing these pages from my albums. It will be difficult, for example, to talk about the pages and this person with my children who know and understand that she can no longer be in our lives. 

    But, for now at least, the pages remain. They are part of my story, and I think–using Angie’s barometer here–they will bring up more happy memories than sad ones in the long run.

  • I suppose the trend is scrapbooking in a way that fits your lifestyle :P more than anything. More than ever we see the “rules” breaking down. I think Project Life-type systems make it easier for everyday scrapbooking, just like the old days of “smashing” your ephemera in a book. Seems like it’s just a more organized way of doing what we used to do perhaps?

  • biology is overrated – that’s a great quote! :) how it expresses the true meaning of family and togetherness…about love and relationships, not bloodlines!

  • I’m curious to hear specifics about the opinions you stated.

    For example, I thought I remember us saying that the industry was in a bubble, it then dropped, then hit a plateau and is now diverging in different paths, which scares many scrapbookers, but there’s no need to be scared b/c that’s normal for all businesses and industries. So it seems like we’re in agreement with you that the industry isn’t doing anything new to business. It’s all a normal part of the cycle. Unless you’re referring to something else. If so, I’d love to know what.

    A few other thoughts — Nancy’s role with her site is to report on what industry businesses are doing and what the business + manufacturing trends are. I’m not aware of her ever having the intention of trying to report on what scrapbookers themselves are doing independent of what businesses are doing, except maybe to say what they’re buying (again, that comes from the business side of it). So I feel satisfied with what she’s contributing. I’m also curious how you define “true scrapbookers” since all of us on the panel are true scrapbookers.

    The last thing I’m curious to hear more on — I would like to know what specific trends you’re referring to that we should have discussed but didn’t. If we had the panel you wish we had, what would have been said about scrapbooking trends and the future of scrapbooking?

    The reason we encourage the audience to comment, and the reason we place so
    much emphasis on the mail and read it first, is so that others can add to
    the discussion, especially where we are lacking. This is your opportunity
    to contribute to the show the specifics that we missed. Please take it —
    I’d love to know what exact information you’re noticing was missing from
    the episode.

    Thanks! :)

  • That’s hard, Jana. A really good point. Thanks for sharing.

  • That’s how I feel, Margaret — that I am enjoying more happy memories than sad by scrapbooking about that person. I feel that if I can’t have that person in my life anymore, I can at least have them in my life in the form of reliving my good memories with them.

  • Yeah — that’s right: a more organized way of doing it. Never thought about that before.

  • For my doctoral research, I asked my respondents about the criticism that scrapbookers are only scrapbooking the happy memories or reframing even the negative to be happy in some way. Over and over again, I heard that they didn’t need to scrapbook the negative because they would always remember those things. Others said that they did scrapbook the negative. They might use hidden journaling to tell the story, they might reframe the story so that it is not so disruptive to have a negative story in a happy scrapbook, they might scrapbook about the person and just not address the negativity. 
    I am struggling with this issue right now. I think the best way to scrapbook about this particular person and this person’s struggles (which are an important part of our family’s history), is to let some time to pass. I most likely will include the real story in hidden journaling and focus on the good before the bad came in the visible journaling on the front of the layout. I think the story will be semi-private. I am still struggling with the shock of how quickly good can become a nightmare to really figure out how best to record this story. 
    This episode is helpful.

  • I’m with you, Stephanie. Your statement, ” I am still struggling with the shock of how quickly good can become a nightmare,” is a good description of my own situation.

    I am very open with my kids about what is happening to the person in my (our) life, but it hadn’t occurred to me to scrapbook about the specific situation. For me, part of the issue is the privacy of the person in question. I don’t know how fair it is for me to document it on paper. That isn’t an issue for everyone’s situations, but it is an issue in mine.

  • KathyinMN

    Adding my two cents on Project Life, because (not sure who said that it was)…but it is not all about putting your pictures into divided page protectors! Sure some of it is, or can be, but the point is that when I do want to do a 12 x 12, I have those pages too. Or 10×12 (because those are now available). Or do what Ali Edwards does and cut your own size and sew up the open sides. There is some freedom with knowing I can easily slip 20 pictures into divided protectors, add cards for journalling, but do a 12 x 12 page for something I really want to highlight. I caught a friend up using a similar system, scrapping over 3000 pictures over a 5 day period (over 2 scrapbook retreats, but still). I used Simple Stories product, as it fits the same type of divided page protectors. It looked cool, her pictures look ‘scrapped’. I’m a believer.

  • KathyinMN

    Wow, just finished listening to the rest of the episode, such a great topic! I’m a step mom too and I’ve scrapped pictures from before I was in the picture. Plus I have pictures from my relationships previous to my current one that I’m torn over what to do with. Mostly I just leave them alone, because, well, those events/relationships made me who I am today.

  • Katie Scott

    Just want to give you a general thumbs up – I love Paperclipping.

  • Yes, that’s what I use it for: as a supplement to my traditional scrapbook pages for some ease here and there.

  • I’ll take it! Thank you!! :)

  • KathyinMN

    Thank you guys for doing these podcasts. I listen to them every Friday afternoon while I’m working and they make my day go faster. I always learn something or come away with creative ideas. Most importantly, it always makes me want to scrapbook. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

  • Iceteeeeee

    Great episode, as always! It was really thought-provoking and brought up a lot of memories for me. I hope you and your family have a fabulous holiday together and I’ll ‘see’ you in 2012!

  • Ruth Bonser

    Hi Roundtable,
    First up I wanted to say that like Angie I listen to the very last minute and enjoy it a lot. I usually listen in the car and think of tonnes of clever comments that I never write on the show notes (hense my easy claim that they would be clever.. they are probably amounting to something like “hmm amen to that comment!” LOL

    I wanted to comment on this episode, which was an interesting topic and well handled. I dont have anything as extreme as some of the other people might but I think that everyone has topics that are further from their own lives and experiences but which include their spouse or kids or others in the photos. In Stephanie’s thesis episode she talked about the way the scrapbooker in the family decides on the memory being told, that the family memory is based on how and what she tells in the album. This is such an interesting take and very relevant here too, I think Angie said something similar relating to her 0 – 10 album. This implies, therefore, that this involved a responsibility to tell the memories “fairly”, “correctly”, or “unbiased”, which is definitely some sort of pressure. 

    On the other hand, we all struggle with journalling, every other magazine and online class tries to help the average scrapper with writing more than “this is joanie on the swing” as the journalling, under the title “At the park (again!)”. I think Tammy made a great point about telling your own story, and for me, it is a guilt relief to take this perspective and leave the hard stuff to a day when I feel ready for it. 

    It is much like the episode about albums when Nancy said she put away her layouts in the album in the order they were scrapped. In that case too I breathed a sign of relief since I do this but feel like it isnt sufficient, I happy let go of the worry and got back to cutting and pasting!

    Thanks again for the wonderful show, I enjoy it every week and will be listening again to some archives while I wait for the next one in 2012.
    Cheers
    Ruth

  • tonysfrenchgirl

    I am so glad you chose to address this topic. My husband and i each brought two children into our marriage. It was at that time that i started scrapbooking; documenting our wedding and honeymoon and our travels as a family. Over the years, i have transitioned to scrapping memories rather than events and have made layouts of each of the four kids. We eventually got custody of my step-son and daughter and their mother passed away about a year later. While she was not a scrapbooker, she did have boxes & boxes of photos of the kids that were brought into our home. I kept thinking that i should make use of them as I had done a number of layouts of my children at an early age but did not have similar pages for the other two. I liked Angie’s idea of the 0-10 album as soon as she mentioned it. But as the discussion progressed, i had to think that it maybe wasn’t really appropriate for me to be scrapping memories that were not mine. The kids were quite young when we first met (4 & 6), so even though i may not have pages of their baby days, i have had plenty to scrap over the years. Thanks so much for your excellent podcasts. I love listening each week, so keep them coming!

  • Katie S.

    Hi Noell & Paperclippers: 

    I logged on the other day, but didn’t post because I got distracted by a critical comment and then just wanted to post some encouragement because I love Paperclipping.  But this morning, I woke up and still wanted to post some thoughts.  So I’m not looking at any other comments – I’m just posting!  I actually have several thoughts on this topic & wanted to write them down.  I am sorry this is so long – I thought about cutting & pasting on my own blog – but I’d rather have this away from my own blog so thanks for the space for a brain dump on this subject. So here goes:

    Abusive Relationships: 

    I know not all step-family situations are bad, but in my life they have been.  My parents were divorced when I was five.  I lived through a step-family situation as a child in which I was abused by step-family and I lived through a different step-family situation as an adult that included witnessing a beloved adult family member being abused by step-family and I was not able to do stop it (despite my calling family services)  Both situations were very painful.       

    I have not scrapbooked about what actually happened in these abusive relationships, although I have written about each situation in other ways – like diaries and letters to other family members (not the abusive ones) but to supportive family members; when I happen to come across those types letters now I will sometimes tuck them between pages or put them in a 3 ringed notebook I call “stories” which includes some scrapbook pages, but also letters, emails, newpaperclippings, and other odds and ends; there’s a section for different things so I typically put those types of letters into the sections for that branch of the family.        

    I have, however, over the years scrapbooked my feelings about those bad situations, but it is when I feel some unresolved feelings and I have the desire to make such a page, this type of page would never be on  “list of things to scrap”.  When I do make scrapbook pages on this subject, the journaling is vague – I write how I feel but it is not an account of what happened and I do not name names in my scrapbooks.  Then, if I don’t want to really see the therapeutic scrapbook page later, then I just stick the entire scrapbook page in between two others in a scrapbook page protector so I know its in there but I don’t have to look at it unless I pull it out and intentionally look at it, which I have never done by the way.  I do think it is important to get feelings out when you have the need to, even bad ones, so that you can move forward.  However, the majority of my scrapbooking focuses on positive parts of my life because that is what I want to focus on in life.

    Past Marriages:

    My husband was married twice before, once when he was 18 and again in his twenties, I met him when he was 38 so he had been divorced for over 10 years before meeting me.  He did not have any children from his marriages.  It is not a secret that he was married before.  No one is upset about it.  We do not have any contact with his prior spouses, although I think if they showed up on our doorstep, we would most likely invite them in for coffee to catch up.  He did have a stalker ex-girlfriend when we met who I’m still a bit afraid of, but the ex-wives have never been an issue.   I have never felt any need to scrapbook them, in fact it never even occurred to me to scrapbook them before listening to this episode of Paperclipping.  I have done scrapbooking about my own auto biography, but I have not done an “autobiographical” or “biographical” scrapbook about my husband.  I suppose if I ever do, then I would include brief bits about those chapters of his life, but I have so many other things to scrapbook that his life story isn’t high on my list.  My scrapbooking is more of my own autobiography and documenting of my children’s lives.  Its all from my perspective so I don’t feel the need to document my husband’s life before me, although I have made pages about how he looked as a baby in relation to my children, his family history since I have a relationship with his family, the fact that we both went to the same law school, and his old cars (because I had lots of photos).  But the prior marriages have never come up and I sort of don’t expect them to.

    Step Family in the Extended Family:

    I have some extended family who is close to us whose families are made up of blended families, but since they do not make a big deal of this and the step families are long established, it never comes up in the scrapbooking.  For example, one family member would actually be a step-(insert family relationship) but we just skip the step & never even mention it and it has never come up in my scrapbooking.

    Divorce:

    Another family member of mine who is very close to me went through a divorce during the time that I have been scrapbooking.  So the spouse was in the scrapbooks for a time and then they just sort of disappeared, I didn’t make a scrapbook page about the divorce.  It is not my story to tell, and in the context of my scrapbooks, it is not a relevant story.  So the section in the People We Love album has pages about that family member’s childhood, the wedding, the marriage and children, and then the spouse just disappears from the current pages about that family member.  I know that doesn’t really tell the whole story about that family member, but I don’t feel the need to tell every thing in my scrapbooks, I tell the stuff I want to tell about or that is my place to tell.

    Living vs. Dead People:

    I also feel more freedom in scrapbooking dead people when it comes to negative situations or really any situation because they are less likely to complain (wink).  Since I often times share my pages on my blog, I don’t put in my scrapbooks anything that I wouldn’t say or show to that living person. 

    Adoption: 

    We recently had an adoption in our family and it was a very happy event.  But just like the Adoption Paperclipping episode, I think it was called “Poopy Stuff in The Background”,  the before-the- adoption story includes some very sensitive and painful things.  Since the adoption was not in my immediate family, I do not feel like it is my place to tell those stories on my scrapbook pages; if I had been the adoptive mother then I’m sure I would include that information in some way – but probably not on a scrapbook page. 

    Conclusion:

    Ok, so that was more than I thought I had to say.  I think each scrapbooker comes to the “table” with a different family situation but also a different perspective on how they want to deal with these types of issues.  If a scrapbooker is having a hard time figuring out what to do, they could even write it out like I just did for their own personal guidelines and maybe even print out that and include it somewhere so that if they are concerned about someone in the future looking at their scrapbooks and wondering about what the whole story way – the guidelines could be a sort of appendix or explanation to the scrapbook to tell the reader how the story was written and what was left out – and maybe even where to find the whole story if they want to include that in some other way. 

    Ok, I feel sufficiently brain-dumped.  Thank you for this thought provoking episode & for Paperclipping & for the space for me to brain dump!

    :) Katie S. 

  • Dmc21043

    good response Noell!

  • Thank you for sharing your own personal choices. I’m sure it will be helpful to others. In the situations I have in common with you I do the same thing (ie. as of right now I don’t feel a need/desire to explain why certain people disappear).

  • Vfleslie

    I dealt with a situation that basically sucked the oxygen out of my life for a year or two but I’ve never scrapped it  because it is not my story to tell.  The story details remain rightfully private according to the wishes of the person it happened to.  How it affected me was a life-changing experience, and not all bad now that the immediacy has passed, although at the time it was overwhelming.  It doesn’t seem right not to scrap it because there are positive lessons to impart to future generations but I haven’t felt comfortable with any of the ideas I have come up with yet.  It was one of those sudden “good becoming nightmare” situations too. 

  • The Paperclipping Roundtable has been such a gift to me. (As it arrives free on my Itunes every week it is a GIFT) I love listening to a group of panelists who are as passionate about scrapbooking as I am. You all always make me laugh and think, and  ultimately inspire me to dig into my supplies and play. I am shocked when I read comments that have negative things to say about this show and accuse the panel of not being real scrapbookers- whatever that means.This makes me feel like I do when I hear a very spoiled rich kid complain that the car that daddy bought for them is the wrong color. Really? So please ignore the naysayers and remember that the majority of us are so grateful that you all share your ideas, expertise and inspiration with the rest of us. That is a gift in the true sense on the word. Happy Holidays.

  • Ruth Bonser

    Well said, Diane. Heaps of us love you guys and are extremely grateful for the hard work that it would take for you to make paperclipping. It is the best of its kind.

  • AshleyM

    Another great year of Paperclipping Roundtable!  Thanks Noell, Izzy, and Nancy (as well as all guests)!

    I was hoping there would be some talk of how to scrapbook the unfortunate relationships for future generations to see.  My mom and I do not have a great relationship.  And from the outside looking in, either of us could be at fault.  Years down the road (assuming my scrapbooks last a few generations) there may be questions of why there are not a ton of pictures of us together and why she is mostly absent from our scrapbooks.  I would love thoughts and ideas on how to address that.  My first inclination is just to write out in a very general way (and fair to both of us) what happened and why our relationship changed.  But maybe others have different ideas or thoughts?

  • Amen to that comment!

  • For me the issue becomes more complicated because the person in question ultimately passed away and my daughter is only 3. I hope she has no memory of this person except from the photos and stories I tell her bc the last visit was fairly traumatic. I feel like I have to create some story for her about what happened and tell her some version of the truth at some point (I suppose as a cautionary tale). I suppose this is a topic for another episode: parenting via scrapbooks. 

  • Thanks for the shout out, Ruth! I think we really recognize how much we shape the memories recorded in the scrapbook when dealing with more sensitive topics. Most of the time, I’m not sure we really notice or think too much about it. I know I certainly think about it a lot more when approaching more sensitive topics. 

  • Thank you for your kind words and for your support!! :)

  • Thanks so much, Ruth!

  • Hi, Ashley. At this point, I don’t know of anyone who has done this. If I come across anyone, I’ll see what I can do. If any in the audience knows of someone who has shared pages like this publicly, they are welcome to lead me in the right direction!!

  • Thanks for the topic suggestion, Stephanie. I added it to our running list of possible future topics.

  • I had to push pause in order to comment about One Little Word.  This year my word has been BALANCE.  We all have so many different roles in our lives and it can be so hard to balance them.  I’ve truly spent the year being deliberate about how I balance my time, my resources, my priorities, my commitments.  I’m so happy with how my One Little Word has played a role in my life.  Like several of you, I am not ready to give up my word.  I plan to keep it forever.  But I do want a new word for 2012.  I created a tag with my One Little Word and hung it up as a banner in my scraproom.  There is a blank tag strung next to it that will house my 2012 word.  I plan to keep adding a word a year, but never finishing up with an old word.  They will always be on display.  Here’s a picture:  http://www.cindyderosier.com/2011/12/one-little-word.html

  • Peg in CO

    Great episode!  I think you all did a great job sharing really practical thoughts about a difficult subject.  You also represented a nice spectrum of situations and solutions.  Thanks for a great program and I hope you all have a wonderful break.  Looking forward to the anniversary and CHA shows a lot!

  • Hi Noell & Paperclipping Roundtable,  I’m having a “Dear Abby” moment. 

    Yesterday was Christmas and, as a scrapbooker, I had my camera with me.  During an extended family part of the day, I offered to take a photo of a mother and child; they both looked great and from where I was sitting, it was a Kodak moment; it seemed like a “no brainer” to snap a picture for her.  {I actually wish my extended family would do more of this type of favor picture taking for me.} But the mother said “No!  Don’t take my picture!  You’ll just put it on Facebook!”  I was a bit shocked by her response; I didn’t take the picture, but I felt like Shimelle Laine, in the Paperclipping episode when she said after someone said something negative about her scrapbook, “and then I excused myself to go cry in the loo.”  I did quietly get away from that situation and later went to check my Facebook account to see what she was talking about, I did have 2 photos on Facebook that included her and the the rest of the family in group shots (like 15+ people), but none that would have been anything like one that I offered to take of her and her child; so I deleted the 2 group family photos from my Facebook.  I don’t really want to stir anything up in the family, but I’m making a mental note not to take more photos of her. 

    This exchange kind of put a damper on my day even though I tried not to let it.  I found myself thinking about how people are different and some people may not like having their photo taken; I know my own sister does and I’m fine with that; but as a scrapbooker I sort of assume that most mothers would love a photo of themselves with their child under the tree on Christmas morning, but I am apparently wrong about that.   I remember Julie Fey Fan Balzer mentioning in “So Cute Today” that she often scrapbooks her mother because some people in her life would not enjoy being part of her online scrapbooking world.   I also found myself thinking about how others may perceive me as a scrapbooker in the family, does it create a barrier?  I wonder if some people avoid scrapbookers because they don’t like having their photo taken.   I am sad that I didn’t get a big group family photo yesterday, I would have normally but for this exchange; I did get lots of great photos so I’m not totally devasated or anything  – just a little bummed.

    I would love to hear a Paperclipping episode about how to deal with people in your own family or close extended family or maybe even close friends that do not want to be part of your scrapbooks.  I think awesome possible guests for this could be Stacy Julian, Ali Edwards, Julie Balzer, and/or Stephanie Medley Roth of Scrapworthy Lives (to get the sociologist’s perspective) or anyone who has dealt with this type of issue.

    Thank you & Merry Christmas!

    P.S.  I also found myself thinking about 2 quotes for extended family situations at Christmas:

    1. Story People on “Successful Holiday”:    “Rules for a successful holiday: 1. Get together with the family 2. Relive old times 3. Get out before it blows”

    2. Tami Morrison had this quote on Facebook:   “Christmas Eve with the extended fam. My motto: Eat like nobody’s watching, give like you’ve never been regifted, mingle like your relatives aren’t batshit crazy.”

    Ok, Peace Out.

    Katie.

  • Love that idea! Thanks for sharing. And what a beautiful tag…!

  • I had a very strong reaction to this episode and just had to
    comment. I’m the child of divorce; have a tense and often estranged
    relationship with my mother; and I have my own unique situation where my own
    children are concerned. My mother and I have always had a tense relationship.
    It has gotten more strained over the years. There have been many months and
    even years we haven’t spoken, because it’s healthier for me not to. With that
    said, I don’t scrap about this. I’m a firm believer that some stories do not
    need to be told or do not need to be shared publicly. I can journal about my
    feelings in a private setting and still preserve “our” story, but when it comes
    to scrapbooking I focus on the good memories I have of her or in recent years,
    her healthy relationship with my children. 

    Since I have a close relationship with my father and
    stepmother, they often show up in my scrapbook pages. I don’t feel any sense of
    guilt that I have more pages with them than my mother, as I’m closer to them;
    we spend more time together; and they play a larger role in my life and the
    lives of my children. Good or bad, it’s the way my life has turned out and I
    embrace that.

    Finally, my daughter was the product of a bad and failed
    relationship. I was a single parent for a year before I met and married my
    husband. He has since adopted her and he is the only father she’s ever known. I
    rarely talk about this and I don’t scrap about it. Why … because it’s not my
    story to share. I’m not ashamed or embarrassed by this particular story — my
    daughter and those close to us know the whole truth — but I want her to share
    it in her own way and in her own time. I also think if anyone else was to share
    the story it would be my husband, as it’s really their story together.

    I think every situation is different, but I do believe that
    we have to remember that our scrapbooks are out scrapbooks and they tell our
    story. We have control over what goes in them, what we share and even what we
    don’t share. We aren’t obligated to dump every crappy memory or feeling into
    them. They can be whatever we want them to be.

    This comment turned out to be a lot longer than I planned! That you for a great show and I love listening. Keep up the great work.

     

  • Anonymous

    Hi Katie!

    I was on the other side of a similar situation recently. I was the one asking, (politely) that a familly member not put my picture (or my kids) up on Facebook. My objection comes in solely from the perspective Facebook’s privacy policies. I don’t use Facebook for my own personal reasons, and I don’t want others putting their photos of me up there either. I think it’s only fair to ask permission from every person in a photo before posting it anywhere online, not just Facebook. If that same person were creating a personal (physical) scrapbook with me in it, I would not have made that request. But, to me, there are definitely privacy concerns with posting other people’s photos (and names) online and I really appreciate the opportunity to decline the offer. Does that make sense? It wasn’t about my the memory keeper, but truly and online privacy thing. I just thought I’d jump in and say that there may be nothing more to it than that.

  • I’m glad this episode was so thought-provoking for so many! Thank you for sharing your own experiences and insights!

  • Two things, Katie:

    1) I love the Story People art! For the past year or two I’ve been pining after 3 of the sculptures and I finally bought one for myself a few weeks ago. Izzy got me the other two for Christmas!! :)

    2) I put your topic on the list of possible topics to discuss in the future. As for your personal situation — if it were me, I’d call that family member and ask her what her wishes are + let her know you respect them.

  • Katiescottscrapbooking

    Good perspective – thank you. :) Katie

  • KatieK.

    Oh, what a topic and I haven’t listened to it yet. I’m going to have to wait till I’m either in an invincible mood or feeling sad nostalgic ‘cuz I already can feel lots of feelings. This is the topic most of us dance around, it’s the elephant in the room that nobody takes a candid photo of to put in the album or we do and we don’t journal about why. I glanced at the comments ‘cuz I know I want to read them all completely – they will be rich with feelings and suggestions maybe I can apply to my own touchy life stories. How do I pay truth to some painful stuff from past that while making me who I am today could be difficult for others to read or possibly learn about? It’s not that I haven’t shared. Probably better to get story down so in future the stories and wonderings are in my voice and not gossip and unanswered questions. I think of something I found of my mom’s that raises questions re: things from before I was born. I don’t want that same unsettledness for my kids.
    I’m sure a historian-psychologist-social worker could have a field day analyzing what we put in and what we leave out!

  • Thanks for thinking of me, Katie! I don’t post many photos on facebook. I probably upload new photos to facebook four times a year. I have started using instagram quite a bit and post those to facebook (and twitter), but those are usually only of my daughter, husband, me, or random objects. I don’t post photos of other people to facebook unless I know they are ok with it and I base that on what kinds of things they post. I don’t identify their children in photos and only post photos of other people’s kids if I know they are ok with it. With the blog, I do ask people’s permission before posting. I try to just avoid having to do that and use layouts of my child, husband, or me. Of course, I have mixed feelings even about that. I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I feel like I am exploiting my daughter for the sake of having a layout to post to Scrapworthy Lives. I try not to post anything that would ever be embarrassing…but of course realize that it will all be embarrassing when she’s about 15. :)
    I do run into the issue of people not wanting their photo taken because they think they look bad. I do believe this is an issue of gender. I’ve never heard this type of objection from a man. I’ve only heard it from women. I do get frustrated by this because I wonder what they think I’m going to do with the photo. Bad photos happen. We look bad sometimes. But even those bad photos, can be meaningful. I’d rather have one bad photo than no photos. Most often the person doesn’t look bad at all.   It might be a good idea to get someone on the show who is a professional photographer. (Not a self-taught professional photographer, but someone who has a photography degree. I’m assuming that there would be some discussion of ethics and the law when you get the degree that might be overlooked among many self-taught photographers.) 

    Ok, I’m done rambling. 

  • jenn05042005

    I wanted to expand on one aspect of jmspegel’s comment, specifically this: ”
    real non industry influenced scrapbookers.”  I also think there are two general types of scrappers:  those of us who spend time on the internet seeing bloggers, design team members, scrappers on 2peas, etc.  waiting for and using the “newest, hottest products” (which basic creating the “newest trends” among online scrappers) and and those scrappers who don’t ever go online, still make two-page multi-photo layouts, still scrap chronological albums, and don’t know or care what the newest trends or products are. It might be interesting to see what those “non-internet” scrappers think and do?? (then again, we’re all here on the internet, so maybe what non-internet scrappers do doesn’t really matter to us…??) 

    Sometimes I do feel that trends are somewhat “artificially” created through all the online design team and company publicity, which is basically a way to sell the product. (i.e., the newest tool, punch, die, ink color, one-photo on a page with an entire package of artificial flowers to embellish it, etc.)

  • You alluded to a fact I was going to mention if Nancy decides to read this as mail on the show, or if anyone else was interested in commenting on this, and it’s this:

    The Roundtable serves the scrapbooking community that is involved on the internet. There is small a portion of our audience who found us through iTunes because they got a new iPod or iPhone and who did not use the internet for scrapbooking purposes. But usually, once they’ve started listening to the show, they join the online community and begin paying attention and evolving with the trends. The core audience is involved with the online scrapbook community to some degree.

    So that is our target audience and we gear our content for that audience.
    In addition to our need to provide content that is relevant to our core audience is our need to stay in business. Staying is business relies on an audience that is willing to purchase internet-based memberships and classes. That has to be the audience we target, or the show gets canceled. So it just makes sense for the audience and for us that we continue to have a panel that contains people who are involved with the community. Not scrapbookers who don’t care about industry trends or products.

  • I’m in a situation right now where I am separated from my husband and I don’t have a good relationship with my mother-in-law. I thought about removing their pictures from my scrapbooks and not scrapbooking anymore pictures I still haven’t scrapbooked of them yet but decided not to do that. The reason is because I have a child and that is my child’s father and grandmother and he has a relationship with the both of them. It’s not just about me. The one thing I did do to sort of make myself feel better for a moment was rip up my wedding photos. Not the originals but just some copies. I have enough sense to know not to destroy pictures that I can’t replace. Just because my relationship with someone has changed for the worst doesn’t erase the fact that they were once in my life during better times. I try to remember that.

  • A good decision that must take a lot of strength. Much respect.

  • Mel

    I found this such an interesting episode. I found all the comments interesting too. Especially the ones about the perspective of the story teller/scrapbooker. I often think about this as lots of my pages include my extended family as I don’t have kids. I totally am behind the consensus that you are telling your story not your nephews or sisters etc. But as I am the scrapbooker if I don’t tell it won’t get told. (well of course it might do one day) I think if I went through all my albums I would probably find that I do tell stories form my POV not from anyone elses and I guess that’s fine. I try to get over to them how wonderful telling stories is family and if we don’t share them little gems will be lost.
    But I guess that’s just life.
    Thanks for the thought provoking everyone,