PRT 010 – The Drop Shadow Haters

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The Panel

Product Picks

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  • What an interesting perspective on drop shadows. I never really considered that the traditional community might view them as weird.

    I've only scrapped digitally and drop shadows are part of the culture, of what you're “supposed to do” (or so you would be led to believe) … they're certainly a factor in how the digital community views the attractiveness or technical difficulty of a layout.

    I think the viewpoint on digital shadows depends on the scrapper's history and expectations when it comes to the final result and the experience in getting there.

  • tortagialla

    Haha, I can understand the hate for the drop shadows. I think many digital kits offer both shadowed versions and non shadowed versions of elements now. But I think it's just a frame of mind regarding digital in general. People have to realize it's just another tool, another method…you do with it what you want.

  • Jennifer, I don't know if the traditional community views them as weird,
    necessarily — it might have been a surprising coincidence between the group
    of us. I always associated them with technical skill, as you said, and I'm
    not really sure it's actually drop shadows that bother ME or the attempt at
    times to look 3-d when it's clearly not. ???

  • Coincidence possibly.. but perhaps just reveals more of the dichotomy between the worlds (and one that I'm not always aware of). For better or worse, I feel there is a lot of “why would you want to scrapbook totally on your computer?” within scrapping at large.

    It's a totally 100% fair question, because no, it doesn't look the same and it's not the same experience. (The hybrid approaches described in the podcast are a much easier sell than 100% digi.)

    But, it is something we're all wrestling with, discussing and thinking about more as the industry players wade into the digital world. May had a great point – that we need to stop thinking so much about labels for the techniques and focus on the memory-keeping and storytelling that unites us.

    Back to the subject…
    The best point about digital drop shadows was the mixing of a digitally shadowed element (that is then printed) with something that is actually tangible. I've tried this on “hybrid” cards and I totally agree, it doesn't look right.

  • You are so right about hybrid not being explained often. (Though Cathy Zielske said on Renee TV the other night that she's going to do more videos on that.) In fact, much of the digital world considers “hybrid” something completely different.. crafty 3-D projects made from digital supplies.

  • Ladydoc

    Loved Paperclipping Rountable 10. Lots of good stuff today. One comment early on was the worry by LSS about digital. Really, folks! The thing that will “kill” you is lack of personal service and lack of flexibility. Naturally the economy is a problem and folks may need to re-group or down size. Nonetheless, the stores that are surviving and thriving are the ones who listen to their customers.
    If your customers like digital why not offer them classes, have a 12 inch printer at your store, study up and suggest hybrid LO's, offer a printing service for custom sized photos.
    In general, make sure the products you want to sell are what your customers want or create a need for us consumers by offering classes where the products are used – then give a discount of 10% on products folk who attend the class purchase (like one of my local stores does. Works well. At least, most of us who attend the class (me too) buy a LOT)
    Get informed about trends in the business – like CHA, Scrapbook Update or just listen to Paperclipping Rountable (which you can listen to when you stock your shelves – right? I know there is not a lot of down time) Be friendly, know your customers, offer to sell them something they may not have noticed in the store. Be a GREAT sales person. You are not Michaels or Joanns so sell products that those stores do not carry.
    I am glad you had May Flaum on. She is a fun and very inclusive. I love her approach and I'm lucky to call her a friend. And, while we live near each other, I became a friend when I was her BPS student. I still take all her classes because I learn a lot. Like most great teachers she doesn't pretend to know it all but always seems ready to learn a solution along with you and has the resources to get the answer.
    Ali has such beautiful designs, and her handwriting is to die for! (Of course, I'm a gynecologist and you know what they say about doctors and their handwriting! LOL!) She has been such a great inspiration to scrapbookers with her word for the year and the 25 days of Xmas, etc. BTW, this year my word is “courage” which I did need to have in order to audition as your “consumer” – Congrats to the winner.
    I wish you'd have posted Ms. Lord's blog link as I have not been able to find her. In fact, not just the product links – it would be helpful if you'd post links to anything or anybody mentioned on the show. For example, not only Ms. Lord's site but also “c. d. Mc…?'s” too. I've seen c.d.'s work but I dare not try to spell her last name. BTW poor Ms. Lord having to live down “the Lord” references. Oh, well. I'm sure she has a good sense of humor, probably not the first time that has happened.
    Product picks is a fave part of the show. Like hearing the comments on the items. FabRips sound interesting.
    I like the give and take format of the though it is hard when a guest is silent or two talk at once. Maybe that will get better as you have more shows and work with this format.
    Digital scrapboking is in its infancy and yet it does seem intimidating to us newbies. It's all thos .png and .apr, etc. files. Well, it is more than that. I've always used my computer as a tool when scrapbooking but I know folks who are intimidated by art supplies or arty looking pages. I see a lot of women who like to wallpaper their pages with ALL their photos covering up most of the beautiful and expensive patterned paper they have purchased adding a little line or two of journalling and a few embellishments. It's not my style but they use a lot of stuff so embrace them. They keep stores going. Personally, I'd rather put my photos in a photo album than scrapbook with wallpapered photos but they tell their story their way and like May, I think it is all good!
    Boy, was that a long post. Like I said – it was a good show!

  • tortagialla

    I'm glad Cathy is going to do more videos, because she's very good at explaining things in a simple way. If you can compare to traditional art mediums, instead of just painting with oils and just painting with watercolor…using digital elements as another tool is like mixed media? :)

  • Ladydoc

    Not so sure that my point was clear in the last paragraph. I was trying to say that even in paper crafting there are a lot of approaches and none is good or bad. Sometimes folks just get intimidated by some styles or techniques but it is all good. If we can encourage a toe in the water, so much better; but it's not necessary for everyone. Some knitters only make dishcloths and scarves. Just because they do not want to try socks does not make them a bad or insignificant knitter. Same goes for scrapbooking.

  • Joan

    In response to the letter portion, I enjoy the roundtable discussion, and enjoy the miscellaneous input presented by the various individuals-more informal & “entertaining”.

  • Joan

    Just a note— I appreciate the format that you have now. The random topics that come up and the miscellaneous information is what I enjoy about the “roundtable”- a variation from many of the tutorials I come across. My vote is to keep it as is.

  • mshanhun

    Love the new quick intros :)

  • mshanhun

    Love this

    It shows how we as digital people can over-complicate it!

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  • As I sat down to listen to my weekly rountable, I was really excited that my “teacher” was going to be on my favorite podcast show. Much to my surprise I was floored as Izzy read my email to the listeners. When I responded to that show, I almost felt as though you were all here in my shop sharing your opinions, so automatically I responded as if you were here at my table. I appreciate the fact that those of you who are in this industry, recommend us! Our goal for our shop was to offer other products, that are so much fun to play with in the scrapbooking world. In our very rural area, we were for the most part saturated with Creative Memories, Stamping Up and Close to My Heart. Not to say that all these companies' products are not fabulous, but the big box shops and them alone just weren't enough for those of us who want to play with more products and possibilities. PLUS we wanted to provide a space for people to get together to learn, share, and create! Our shop has a good work space, well lit, warm and product at your fingertips. Ssssoooo many people, in our area, hit with many layoffs last year in our local industries, are even more budget conscious now! I think more people will stay home, or invite friends to craft, at home, even though we offer the space during our open hours, as well as special crop days. We have tried different interest groups, different scheduling ideas, and so many times no one will sign up, or last minute cancelations. Then there are other times when we pack the room!!! I have not been able to put my finger on what works best, BUT I like to think I am customer service oriented, we are happy to order things from our different distributors ( thanks for Notions, as Nancy sighted).Yet the customer part of me sees, if I can't get it in my area, the closest place to go is about one to two hours away, so the internet calls my name LOUDLY. There are many who like Anna, will be working on projects at all hours of the night, and that is the only time they can! Thank you Nancy, Ali, and Noell for being so supportive of us shop owners, but Izzy has a point, sometimes it is more efficient for the customer to order things on line. Sadly, distributors do not always get the products first, they have to wait, as some of the online merchants get them b/4 they do, at least it seems that way! Maybe I am not completely informed. I was so moved when I heard my email read, and the reactions from all of the panel! I still am… thanks again for verification! My experience in May's class I would never trade, as she has simply stated it is already happening, as we journal, print, and edit photos at home. I have had pse and msw and never thought of them as page layout tools, and I am really enjoying putting the “tools” altogether! Thanks again and I am was really psyched to be with all of you! Laura P

  • mshanhun

    Oh and anyone looking for a great hybrid crafting blog…

  • Ladydoc

    Boy! This episode of paperclipping got my wheels turning. I read an article this morning in “Canadian Scrapbooker” that made me reflect on Izzy's comment that digital scrapbooking is in it's early stages.
    The article dealt with typography as a design element. The editor of the magazine, Katherine Doyle, did show a traditional typography LO in her column.
    However, the article, by Jennifer Steinhauer, had digital LO illustrations showing typography effects that work so well in digital scrapbook pages. While some can be adapted to traditional “lumpy” scrapping, this is one area where digital scrapping can really shine. The words “in love forever” fading off to a point of infinity following the path of a steel-girded bridge behind a newly wed couple is a perfect example of the way digital can tell a story in a fresh way for a scrapbooker, with a tool used by illustrators.

  • That's interesting, Ladydoc, and I can envision the bridge example you're
    talking about. I love the symbolic use of the type you described and it
    sounds beautiful. There are so many attractive digital effects that graphic
    designers use that are available to scrapbookers, too and that, in my
    opinion, make more sense for a flat 2-dimensional medium.

    Thanks for sharing!

  • Thank you for these awesome resources!!!

  • HeatherC

    Just finished listening and had to write to let you know how much I enjoyed this episode! I am mostly a paper scrapper who dabbles in digital. I like what I can do with my photos, I like adding text and journalling, but have to say I agree with the roundtable — I just do not like the look of the digital elements (buttons, flowers, clips) on the page, especially when printed out. I guess if you were going for an all digital product, it is ok, but certainly won't be where I will focus my energy. I agree with Ali though — for those who enjoy it and it helps them tell their story, good for them, but as for me, as a scrapper, my LSS can count on my continued business. Ironically, I have created MANY digital pages, but have NEVER printed one! I very rarely will send just photos to friends and family when sharing an event — they are all scrapped digtally with the story — they can print if they choose, but I just like sending a complete product. I keep as a reference on my computer — sometimes posting on my blog, sometimes will be a practice for me when I make in traditional (paper) form. Also, my do not own a laptop and my computer is far (on a separate floor of my home) from my scraproom. For me to do hybrid scrapping — except for an occasional journal or title (or digitally editing photos before sending to a photo printer) is simply not practical. I once heard scrapping with friends compared to the “modern day quilting bee” — going digital I not only lose my paper crafting therapy but the social element as well. I guess what I am saying in a nutshell is to each their own, but for me I plan to continue to scrap in traditional ways.

    Looking forward to the next podcast! Really enjoy the show.

  • tortagialla

    Wondering if it would be possible to list links to some of the designers mentioned in the podcast? I'm having a hard time finding some, or maybe I didn't hear the name right? Thanks!

  • Just got a chance to listen to the show (so crazy-busy these days). Thanks so much for the plug and your nice comments about our digital art! I was surprised and honored.

    Thanks again and all the best!

    =) Liz

  • DailyDigiSteph

    Hey Noell! I'm wondering if you have ever seen some digital layouts with drop-shadows in real-life print? If not I am totally going to send you some of mine…lol! :) ;)

  • Siri_F

    I´m trying to find CD Makowski (?), any tips?

  • Hi, Siri. Here is a link to her blog:

  • Awesome show!

  • jessie97

    You can find her products here:

  • Dawn Barhorst

    I first started listening to round table podcasts on MP3 player while commuting. The evening I listened to “drop shadows” I was cutting papers for future projects. I enjoyed the bantering of Izzy, Noel and the panel more while I was 'crafting' than while on a 'mission' …like going to work…. maybe the mindset of the listener, like “just get to the point” as opposed to “lets have fun talking” influences the positive and negative comments toward the flow of the show. Just a thought……

  • just catching up and loved listening to everyone's thoughts — what I kept thinking someone would mention about drop shadows is . . . it's not just about how the shadows look printed to paper — it's about how my kids will view the pages in the future—which will NOT be on paper — it's surely going to be in SOME digital form that I haven't imagined yet. I scan all my paper pages now and keep “digital” albums in addition to paper albums. Thanks for another interesting episode.

  • I'm one of those 100% digital scrapbookers that's befuddled in finding a good way to add paper in. Your round table helped me to understand your thinking better as paper scrappers trying to figure a way to add in computers. My answer got WAY too long and involved, so I pared it down and posted it as a blog post:

    NOW I see things much more clearly – your discussion has sparked a LOT for me. THANKS!!!!!!!!!

  • digiscrap101

    Finally had some time today to listen to this show – I love that you all are discussing digital. :) I believe digital scrapbooking could be an amazing boost to the traditional LSS bottom line – especially if they tied hybrid with digital education and amazing service – seriously!

    I have to say that the biggest thing with successful drop shadows are making them realistic. Linda Sattgast with Scrapper's Guide has an amazing tutorial on drop shadows to make them look realistic. It makes the layouts and projects look realistic on screen. I believe the future of our layouts is going to be on the screen – either scanned or computer created as digital copies of layouts are a more realistic way to share memories with all of our children and eventual grandchildren.

    I began my transition from traditional scrapbooking to digital in 2002 – I had twin girls and four kids under the age of 6. Digital scrapbooking (with all my “tools” and elements and materials in my computer) allowed me to continue a hobby I loved without the worry of my kids getting into everything all the time or trying to carve out time to scrapbook where I also had time to clean up. With a computer, it was clean and out of the toddlers ability to destroy when I walked away from my computer! :) Also, I have had a lot of fun scrapbooking with a laptop with my other digital scrapbooking friends, their laptops and our traditional friends with their papers and traditional supplies. It is all good.

  • As for all the haters posting on this blog, grow up. Someone please sack Grant i dont know how he stayed in the job so long. I think the extra time team …

  • I also wanted to buck the drop-shadows-and-gradients-make-the-world-go-’round trend that has been going on for quite some time now. I love that style — I just wanted to try something flatter and more print-like. .